1. eominor - 11:01AM on 05/12/07

The idea that withholding a reward, such a companionship (I.E. a time out) does not work because the dog will not associate the punishment with the behavior is incorrect. Withholding or removing a reinforcer (something a dogs likes) is called "negative punishment." There is actually entire science based on this aspect of animal (and human) behavior. Cesar (or whoever actually wrote this article) should have a look at this for tips on how punishment and rewards actually work: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning) A dog will associate consequences with her actions if the consequence is immediate and only when it is immediate. timing is aslo critical when administering corrections.

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2. Mark T - 11:35AM on 05/12/07

I would like to know if Ceasar has any different methods for Police k-9's?

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3. mh723 - 2:02PM on 05/12/07

What types of animal does negative punishment work on? Have you ever seen a wolf put one of its pack members in time out or take away a stick as punishment.

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4. eominor - 9:05PM on 05/12/07

Negative punishment works on just about any animal. The point of operant conditioing is that it is widely applicable. I know it works on dogs, because I have used it. I have seen a wolf put a pack member in time out. What's your point? I have never seen a wolf put a training collar on a pack member and jerk the leash. I also have never seen a wolf open a can of food and put it in a dish either. I'm not a wolf, and you know what? *Neither is your dog.* If you don't go to chimpanzees for child-rearing advice, why would you go to a wolf for dog training advice?

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5. eominor - 9:06PM on 05/12/07

Guess you can't edit your own comments. Above should read "I have never seen seen a wolf put a pack member in a time out." etc.

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6. The REAL Kristyl - 5:22PM on 05/13/07

I am having an extreme amount of trouble with my slightly over a year old male miniature schnauzer. He was fixed at 11 months, after he grew a tad over conformation size. He's about 17 pounds and very aggressive to people and other dogs that he determines a threat. He picks and chooses which dogs he thinks are dangerous, and then will try to lunge at them. They are usually the more aggressive breeds. With people, anyone coming anywhere near "his" house, or "his" street is bite material. He has bitten four times now...human adult men. I tried socializing him right from puppyhood and he started this aggressive behaviour at only 4 months old. Kinda hard to socialize a dog who wants to rip everyone apart. Yes, I have tried to act as pack leader, yes, I have been consistent, I have two other female schnuazers in here...one his littermate and one a two year old...and they are really well behaved dogs, but when he is around, he stresses out the bunch of them...particularly the older one. It quickly turns into a barkfest... He hates all the neighbors and will just about bark at anything. I am at my witts end and he is about an inch away from being reurned to the breeder...problem is, he loves me very much and I love him. It's like we are not connecting in certain departments. He thinks he has to protect me...and I can't get through to him that he doesn't. It's instinctual with him and we are going to get sued if this keeps up. Trainers only want to train non aggressive dogs...well, I can train one of those just fine myself!!! I can't go anywhere because no one will watch him. The breeder says he is fine up there...but I don't like the conditions in which he is kept...I am in a bind and under contract to return to the breeder if I don't want him. Anybody have any ideas? Remember, I really love this dog...

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7. eominor - 8:21AM on 05/14/07

Kristy, I recommend you continue to look for a local trainer. Issues involving biting and other forms of aggression are serious and should not be handled exclusively online. You need in person hands on help. You should be able to find a trainer willing to help you in listings at http://www.iaabc.org/consultant_locator.htm , http://www.ccpdt.org/rstr/index.html or http://www.apdt.com .

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8. yerfren7 - 4:17PM on 05/14/07

I have one dog who thinks it's her job to protect the house and we live on a golf course with carts and folks going by all day. She goes nuts barking at them. If I am in the yard with her, no barking occurs. If I am inside, it takes me some time to get out and stop her. I make her sit and "down." I think sort of like Cesar's submissive position. We have tried collars but they don't work. How do I train her from a distance?

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9. calspootab - 9:12PM on 05/14/07

I have watched his show for years and he is not mean to a dog but insists the dog pay attention to him. His Tsssst and "bite" get a dog's attention and the touch of his foot (NOT kick) to a dogs body reminds it to stay in the NOW He has turned RED FLAG dogs in to gentle behaving dogs and shown their owners how to continue. He also goes back, on his show, to see how some of his rehabilitated dogs are doing months later and they all seem to be behaving.

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10. CJ Anderson - 10:20PM on 05/14/07

Airopsk9, what Cesar does is behavior modification, NOT dog training, he is the first one to bring in "professionals" who specialize in dog training. He has made this clear not only in his shows, but also in many of his written articles. The Poster Eominor, listed many excellent resources for that type of support. Eominor, I respectfully say that you have completely misunderstood Cesar's comments. Cesar does NOT do negative punishment at all!!! In fact he goes out of his way to talk about NOT doing this in many of his episodes! Further, his stance is that if the owner is in the state of emotionality at all, to NOT engage with the dog until that owner is calm and balanced. He mentioned in his book that martial arts training contributed to his personal skill in doing this approach. Cesar's way not only works, but works for literally THOUSANDS of dogs and their owners, that have not been helped, or able to get help, by any other training way. Aside from the countless dog permanent behavior change success stories you can find from his National Geographic TV program/dvds, his monthly newsletters, and the new book coming out in October already available in Amazon.com called - "Be the Packleader", there are thousands of people over on a Yahoo Cesar's way email list actively working and changing their dogs right now. In the last year another thousand dog owners, have joined the list, solved their problems and left, because the list has become high volume and the archives can be read from the web without joining, for those not needing direct suggestions, support or resources. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogWhispererFans/ I am the list owner. One year ago, we were under 100 people. I was/am someone with NO official or direct connection with CMI, who rescued a red-zone chow, that animal control had been called for to destroy. Cesar's way not only show me how to do a safe rescue, but modify the behavior - NOTHING negative about it, so this dog became beloved by all who knew him! Since then, there have been 7 more rescues of dogs condemmed to death by animal control with behavior problems no one else could help with. Comparetively easy fixes, done safely, using Cesar's way. I hope this clears up the confusion about what Cesar is and does. Many do not understand the difference between dog behavior modification and dog training. Both are necessary and needed in todays society!

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11. kahty - 12:58AM on 05/15/07

Mr. Millan and Co, Glad to see the blog! Thanks for your good work with dogs and humans! Operant conditioning, as we know it, comes from BF Skinner's work and is based on the subject responding to stimuli *in a box*, that is to say in a controlled environment, all by itself. Our dogs live outside of controlled, experimental boxes, with us. Therefore, analysing behavioral patterns *only* through the lense of operant conditioning is not particularly useful. It's important to note that common usage of the word "punishment" connotes "consequence with emotion," whereas in behavioral science the term simply means "consequence" which is emotionally neutral. Mr. Millan clearly points out that responses to unwanted behaviors need be swift and neutral, not with emotion, not after the fact. "Operant conditioning" is a behavioral circuit map of consequences, "Cesar's Way" is like the software that runs on top it giving us meaning. The two are not in competition. A good resource for dog professionals is the International Association of Canine Professionals: www.dogpro.org. There you will find professionals who have strong, balanced approaches to working with dogs.

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12. texuga_30 - 1:55AM on 05/15/07

Thanks Cesar and congratulations for your wonderful job with dogs arround the worl! Hope you come to my city/country: Lisbon/Portugal. Kisses and licks of me and my 3 dogs respectively!!! Marisa.

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13. Lori Reynolds - 5:03AM on 05/15/07

Cesar's way works because he uses the same correction as an alpha dog would use with the same energy behind it, to communicate to the dog that he is doing something wrong. Sound, body langauge and calm, assertive energy. That is why the dog instantly understands it. As a result, the dog begins to respect and admire Cesar. This means it pays attention, becomes obedient and allows him to help it move past its unbalanced behaviour. The dog is relieved of stress, becomes stable and secure because it is in the presence of a calm assertive benevolent alpha leader. There is NOTHING negative about this exchange. It uses the dogs own pack hierarchy psychology to rebalance its mind. Humans can learn how to copy the behaviour and attitude of an alpha dog. Cesar showed me how and helped me understand WHY my dog was having problems. My 85 pound male Ridgeback mix used to do as he pleased whether I liked it or not. Now, I use my alpha attitude to lead him on our walks, give him rules and boundaries to follow and my dog hangs on my ever word, follows my every action willingly and watches me with admiration and love. He is comforted and relaxed because I am showing the signs of being a confident dog pack leader. He is like a enthusiastic side kick always willing to assist me when I need it. Thank you Cesar, for helping me create the dream relationship that I have always wanted with my dog by using dog psychology first which inspired my dog to be eager and willing to train.

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14. Craig Cirelli - 7:03AM on 05/15/07

EOMINOR: You should read Cesar's blog above again, more carefully. In your first reply, you seem to suggest that he is advocating "delayed corrections", when in fact he is stating the opposite (which is in line with what you are suggesting - "immediate" correction for unwanted behavior, NOT a "time out"). Were you perhaps referring to another comment here? Also, I would be really, really careful about recommending any "information" on Wikipedia. Those who know better know just how inaccurate Wikipedia has shown itself to be. That's not to say it's all inaccurate, but in many cases, the info is all over the road, so to speak. Take care, Craig

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15. Randy - 7:48AM on 05/15/07

My god Ginger used to be nuts in the car because she would get so excited. She would not only want to run around but she would "sing" at the top of her lungs. I used Cesars Way to teach her to behave in the car. First by taking her for a long walk before we would even think about going for a ride. Second she did a down stay with the car door open until she relaxed and was calm and submissive. Then I put her on the front seat next to me so I could "bite" her when the singing started and it did. But because of the walk and the down stay it was not as bad as it used to be. Anyway, the story is that now I can take Ginger for rides in the car with only reminders not to be singing. She loves going places in the car, especially the convertable with the top down. She sits in her spot (seat belted in) with her nose straight up in the air sometimes.

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16. Randy - 7:55AM on 05/15/07

eominor - You mention that you use negative punishment on just about every animal. Ever tried it on a cat or a horse? Negative punishment on a cat will only get the cat to run away and on a horse will get you kicked or bitten or worse. I worked with some horses at the race track that most men could not work with because they used negative punishment. I ignored their behaviors because I knew if they really wanted to hurt me they could do so at any time and they were just showing off. I never got bit or kicked by those horses as the guys did because they thought they had to "master" them. I knew it wasn't possible to master an animal that was 100x's my weight, I had to out think it. Randy

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17. eominor - 9:00AM on 05/15/07

ccirelli: I didn't mean to imply that Cesar is advocating late corrections. I was trying to say that a "time out" will only work if it is timely, just like a correction will only work if it is timely. Cesar made an overly broad generalization: "But when you send a dog to another room or deny her a trip to the dog park, your dog simply doesn't connect that punishment with the offending behavior. Dogs live in the now! They understand only the most immediate cause and effect." This is an incomplete statement, and to me it an implies that only corrections work. (and watching Cesar's show, it's possible that he thinks only corrections work, but I digress.) It is possible to deliver a timely and appropriate "time out" (negative punishment) to correct a behavior. For example, when a dog is playing too rough, call a time out, remove him (or yourself) from the play area, wait for him to calm down and then try again. This keeps play fun, while also making it very clear what it acceptable and what is not. (I am also careful to read a Wikipedia article before linking to it. The article on operant conditioning is pretty good, and has links to some even better sources.)

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18. eominor - 9:07AM on 05/15/07

Randy - Did you read the article I linked to? How would negative punishment get you kicked or bitten or worse? I don't think you understand what I said.

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19. eominor - 9:12AM on 05/15/07

kahty - if you believe that Cesar's Way is the "software" that runs over operant conditioning, do you think that it is correct for him to remove 25% of what OC defines by saying that time outs never work?

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20. cr2007 - 9:46AM on 05/15/07

I have just recently become the new owner of wolf hybrid puppies and I am looking for help on raising them properly. I have just learned about Ceasar-do you think he can help me? Has he had any shows or discussions about this breed?

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21. Vicki - 11:09AM on 05/15/07

I used to use time outs with my two goldens before I knew of Cesar. What happened was they started seeing it as a game. If I tried to stop them from doing something I would point and say "to the bathroom." Well, they got to where they liked being in the bathroom with the gate up. I guess they thought it was special or something. So, time outs didn't work for us. They now get a shhhht and a finger point or a low tone of voice that says "not here mister." They have so much more respect for me today. They understand what I'm telling them and I don't have to be angry or negative. In fact it's the opposite. Thank you Cesar for pointing out that us small women can be pack leaders too. Vicki

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22. Goldie - 11:36AM on 05/15/07

I work with trainers of Hearing Service Dogs. Most of the dogs are shelter dogs, so they don't come with ideal puppy training. The method they use is---Smooth, Gentle, Quick correction for non-life threatening situations. Preventive training is the best way to avoid life-threatening behavior.

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23. Lucy - 3:43PM on 05/15/07

I would like to publicly thank you for all the guidance and help you do for all of us doggie owners. We are now living a more happy and balanced life. I can now take him on walks and enjoy the walk. I also wanted to let you know that the Illusion Collar saved Schroeder's life. On one of our walks, he was attacked by another dog. The other dog's teeth went into the straps that attach to the high and low collar. If it wasn't for this collar the teeth would have gone into his neck. Thank you so much for all you do. You are genuinely loved and appreciated.

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24. Renee / 32paws - 8:59PM on 05/15/07

Cesar's Way has made managing my rambunctious pack of dogs SO much easier! By using his calm discipline techniques, putting on their leashes for a walk, feeding time, play time, they now understand that before they are given any of these "rewards" or pleasures, they need to sit for me and behave. Before Cesar, I was always scolding the dogs thinking that they were just "high spirited". But now they sit politely in front of me before activities, knowing that by doing so, they get to the "Good Stuff" SO much faster! THANK YOU CESAR!!

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25. kahty - 10:45PM on 05/15/07

Operant conditioning is also called “response-stimulus” because it describes associations formed between a (response) behavior and a (stimulus) consequence. It’s a template used to describe behaviors and consequences, but it does not determine which are more useful or kinder. We humans assign subjective value to the consequences described in the quadrants. And, OC is only one tool in the world of learning theory. / / / The key to Millan’s philosophy, as I understand it, is in setting the ground for behaviors, not in responding to behaviors; it’s not focused in consequences. Because of that, he has selected the least invasive, lowest profile consequences available. That’s his style (the software that runs over the circuit map). He makes the case that corrections (P+) are more efficient and natural to a dog’s wiring (or psychology) than, say treats (R+) or withdrawing attention (P-). His choices in corrections are designed to fulfill pack relationships, not to produce invented behavior performance. / / / It’s interesting to note that using R+ is very effective in training behaviors that are unnatural to a dog (freestyle for example). It’s also interesting to note that "R+ trainers" firmly advocate using only 50% of the OC field (R+ and P-), even though their emphasis *is* on response-stimulus.

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26. rollinoates - 7:33PM on 05/16/07

I love your show and I need some help I have a 2 yr old male neutered pitbull/lab mix he is very gentle but he wants to chase my cats and I have not been able to stop him you did a sgment on introducing dogs and cats and I would like to know where to find it THXs Terri

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27. Eva - 7:03PM on 05/17/07

Wow, a blog with OPEN COMMENTS! Cesar Milan truly IS fearless! ;-) I did once have a husky mix who responded well and quickly to time outs at the dog park. He was vastly independent minded and sometimes ignored my calls to come when off leash. All my pooches have been of independent minded breeds, but this guy really took the cake! I tried every trick I could think of. Nothing worked. He was immensely uncaring of any punishment or chastisement I could think of. Finally, someone said they had heard that sometimes time out works so whenever the dog heard but ignored my call, I would go over and get him and take him to a lamp post that was a distance away from all the other dogs and tie him out and then walk a little bit away for about for 5 minutes. He wasn't far and I kept my eye on him and he absolutely hated to miss all the action! The timeout punishment had him coming to my call faster than any other dog in the park after about 10 tieouts and after that, I never had to do it again. Amazing! I was truly shocked at the effectiveness as I had truly only tried the trick out of desperation. I think it only worked because it was the only thing I found that he cared about. After the first time, he knew the minute we headed for the post and he really didn't want to go there! Sometimes, a dog forgets to read the doggy rule book and is the exception to the rule. I have learned tons from the DW show and it has helped me greatly to work with my two most recent dogs and also about how to manage my own mind and remain calm in all kinds of situations. But memories of that husky mix also remind me that just when I think I know what I am doing, something will come along and remind me that I must always keep an open mind and be ready to switch to new strategies if something isn't working. People can spend hours arguing about the exact definition of what is and is not natural in a dog pack/wolf pack/human pack/rat pack, but in the end, what I really care about is what works to make a healthy happy dog and sometimes there is just no obvious explanation, natural or otherwise, for some things that dogs do and some ways that seem to help them. The DW methods DO work effectively and within a reasonable time frame and that is why I am so thankful for all I have learned from the show.

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28. Apacapacas - 8:43AM on 05/18/07

Hope someone in charge can fix these comments so that those of us with MSIE 7 can actually read them!

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29. irisurena - 8:29PM on 05/18/07

Dear Mr. Millan. From times to times, I watch your program which has taught me some points as how to treat my dog. The only thing I am having problems with is that my dog loves sleeping on the sofa. What can I do to make the dog stopped sleeping on the sofa?

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30. Tim - 6:51AM on 05/20/07

My suggestion to "eominor" is get a blog of your own.I'm sorry, but you come across as an arrogant "know it all".Might I suggest a blog where you could help people dress their dogs in the latest canine fashions.

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